Should Jaden Ivey be in the Detroit Pistons’ starting lineup?

As part of our Detroit Pistons season preview series, we are spotlighting the biggest questions the team faces as the season approaches. First up is a closer look at the apparent decision to have Jaden Ivey come off the bench.

The biggest source of intrigue and drama through two preseason games for the Detroit Pistons is the way new head coach Monty Williams seems to be tipping his hand regarding what he thinks of the roster and the roles of the individual players.

The most controversial, at least within the Detroit Pistons fan community, is Williams’ preference in bringing second-year guard Jaden Ivey off the bench in both games despite the team being generally shorthanded due to injury.

This has made it abundantly clear, if not stated outright, that Ivey, who 73 of 74 games as a rookie will be a sixth man to start the year. It also has cleared the way for rookie Ausar Thompson to join the starting lineup.

It seems as though Williams doesn’t trust the shooting and generally inexperienced duo of Ivey and Thompson to share the floor with Cade Cunningham and Jalen Duren (two starting unit locks), and is instead opting to make space for Thompson’s defense and a veteran like Bojan Bogdanovic or Alec Burks with Isaiah Stewart.

Is it a good move? Bad move? Permanent move or just a blip? We convened the DBB roundtable to share their thoughts in our Seasn Preview DBB on 3 series.

1. How excited and or worried are you to see Ausar Thompson with all his defensive potential and all his lack of shooting in the startling lineup next to Cade Cunningham?

Lazarus Jackson: 8/10 excited, 3/10 worried. I fear they might be throwing too much responsibility on Ausar’s plate right away, but if it’s sink or swim, he certainly seems like he a swimmer.

Benjamin Gulker: I think it’s great to have a Pistons coach who’s willing to give a young guy the starting job if he’s earned it! But has he earned it? Bogey was the Pistons best player last season by quite a bit, even with his defensive struggles, and the starting lineup in game 1 of the preseason is… limited offensively to put it kindly. You think Cade saw a lot of double and triple teams as a rookie? Brace yourself.

Justin Lambregtse: It’s always exciting to see your new toys as early as possible. I’m fine with Ausar starting as long as Bojan is also starting, as that at least adds 1 reliable floor spacer to the lineup and Ausar can cover for some of his defensive shortcomings.

Wes Davenport: Not at all. Ausar fits well next to Cade so long as there are other shooters around him. The best asset Ausar can provide right now is to take the other team’s best player, and if he can do that for guards as well as wings, that is a massive win for Cade Cunningham. It’s not Ausar Thompson’s fault if Cade struggles due to a lack of spacing, that’s on Monty Williams for (hypothetically) not playing enough shooters in a lineup with Cade and Ausar.

Ben Quagliata: My default setting with anything Ausar Thompson related is excited. As others have mentioned, his greatest strength to this team is providing some sorely needed defensive resistance amounting to anything more than a lazily swatted arm on a Sunday afternoon. I don’t think I’m as worried about his perceived lack of shooting as others might be, I do think he could stand to be a league average spot up shooter (say around the 32-34% mark) if he sticks to the corners. My one concern with Ausar would be how his offensive strengths of cutting off the ball fit into this lineup given how well he clicked with Killian in the second unit. He doesn’t have the gravity yet to command attention standing in the corner but his movement forces defences to pay attention, I just wonder if that will be paid off with Cade and whether it will be as effective with a Stewart-Duren frontcourt.

Brady Frederickson: I’m more excited than worried. Ausar’s shooting is going to be a challenge, but that seems like an unavoidable issue with this team and the lineup options that Monty Williams has at his disposal. Ausar gives the Pistons MUCH NEEDED athleticism and defense on the wing while also serving as secondary playmaker. Those three things take a lot off the plate of Cade, which is needed because the Pistons cannot afford to grind him to a pulp this season by relying on him for everything.

Chris Daniels: I think it may be a bit premature to start him right off the bat but I can easily see a Jalen Duren like rise where it just makes more sense to start him than not. Monty playing him 38 minutes in a pre season game gives a huge hint to how valuable the staff already sees him.

Blake Silverman: I’m excited to see Thompson in the starting lineup. I may have been a bit higher on him than others throughout the pre-draft process, but I think he can provide a real contribution to Detroit’s starting lineup on day one. As we saw in the initial preseason game, his defensive assignment was Devin Booker. I don’t want to draw too many conclusions from one exhibition game, but I think this can be an indicator that Thompson will consistently be asked to guard the opponent’s top option. This will alleviate pressure from Cunningham, which is only a good thing as he gears back into a full season.

Of course, Thompson’s work-in-progress shooting ability provides spacing concerns. However, as long as Bogdanovic is also on the floor as a starter, the Pistons will have an elite threat on the perimeter. Thompson can cause chaos on offense by slashing and finding open teammates when the ball is in his hands. The lack of spacing by inserting him into the starting lineup is definitely a concern, but this is only something to monitor in my opinion.

David Fernandez: Off the bat, I’d say that I lean more worried than excited, due to the lack of proven shooting and heavy burden for the rookie, although I think eventually Ausar Thompson will be almost impossible to keep off the floor. This team has been a slog to watch on offense, mind you, that was without Cunningham in the line-up for almost all of last season, but I’d like to see Cade with some shooting to start the season, seeing that I’ll also be clamoring for Ivey to start in question #2.

2. Do you feel like Jaden Ivey is optimized best in the starting lineup alongside the team’s best players or off the bench with the ball in his hands and more offensive responsibility?

LJ: To me, it depends on what you’re trying to optimize for. If you’re trying to get the most production out of Jaden Ivey, to, hypothetically, make him even more appealing than he already is, you’d bring him off the bench and let him torch bench units. If you’re trying to put the most talent on the floor to try to win some games, you’d play Jaden in the starting lineup.

I honestly don’t know what to make of this Jaden Ivey off the bench thing. Monty and Troy came out of media day talking all about defense, defense, defense, and yeah Jaden was not the best defensive player last year (even as he improved in-season), but snubbing a top-5 pick out of the gate to Lose The Right Way just … doesn’t seem correct to me?

BG: Monty might be falling into the outsmarting himself trap here. Burks is a great bench guy, and he shined in that role when healthy. Ivey grew a lot as a rookie, and we hardly saw any of Cade and Ivey together a season ago. Even as one of the more skeptical “Cade and Ivey are the future” guys out there, I really don’t like this, and I hope it changes.

JL: I don’t hate Jaden Ivey off the bench. It will allow him to play a similar role he had at the end of last season where he really blew up. The optics aren’t great because Ivey didn’t do anything to “earn” the demotion, and I probably wouldn’t have done this, but I’m not as torn up about it as some people.

WD: I would rather Ivey start. I think his ball handling, dribble-drive game, and (ideally) finishing ability all play very well as a secondary creator in this offense. Ivey has shown in college and at times last season to be a capable off-ball player as well. Ultimately, the potential of those two to become a really great backcourt pairing is too high to not lean into. And for all the concern I’ve seen wondering “if Ivey is a point guard,” I think we can pretty quickly throw that out. Ivey himself told teams he views himself as a two during the predraft process, and he spent the majority of last season playing next to Hayes or another guard. Ivey is a two.

BQ: Yes.

In all seriousness last year showed what Ivey is capable of with the ball in his hands for large stretches, and it was *mostly* good, turnover issues at times aside. While it’s possible Ivey is the victim of his own success last year with ball in hand by moving him away from a pairing with Cunningham, I think the long term strategy should still be to get these guys as many reps together as humanly possible. Ivey’s shooting came on as the season progressed, and he’s still maybe the most dangerous on the team at attacking a closeout off the perimeter. Both those attributes in theory fit well alongside Cade, and I’m not convinced Ivey will be the dominant ball handler anyway on a second unit, at least not as much as we might hope, given the presence of Monte Morris (and maybe even Killian Hayes who knows).

Still though, you bet I’ll be hunting a futures bet on Ivey for 6th man of the year if I can find it.

BF: I can honestly see both working, but I’d rather see him start. I think there’s a level of suddenness he brings that worked well early as the yin to Cade’s yang last season, but I also think he’s got the chance to really thrive as a primary ball handler off the bench. I’m not as concerned with whether he starts or comes off the bench initially so long as he’s getting time alongside the core of Cade and Ausar and Jalen Duren. Maybe this is Troy Weaver and Monty trying to bring Ivey along in the same way the Thunder did things with Kevin Durant and Russell Westbrook starting with James Harden off the bench?

Chris Daniels: Tricky question. It all depends on how Monty and Jaden both view him best progressing. Ivey has been quoted as saying he’d be comfortable coming off the bench. If he and Monty see his best shot at maturation this season as lead ball handler and scorer for the second unit it makes sense. If he could be OKC Harden for a season or two and then move to a bigger role like Harden had, minus the trade to another team obviously, it could make sense.

BS: Ivey will need to get used to playing alongside Cunningham more consistently. That said, I am confident in Ivey’s ability to succeed without operating as a primary ball handler. Coming off the bench allows him to control the ball more often than not, which can build confidence for the second-year guard as a scorer. I can see a world where Ivey thrives as a starting guard, but I can also see one where he succeeds as the first player off the bench. Right now, I lean toward letting Ivey serve as the primary offensive generator in the second unit, while trying different lineups with Ivey as a starter as the season progresses.

DF: For immediate optimization, I’d say Ivey probably benefits more with the ball in his hands with the second unit. But this team will likely miss the playoffs this season, and I truly believe that Ivey and Cunningham can work as your starting two guards for the foreseeable future (Ivey was a top 5 pick afterall) so I’d much rather him find a rhythm with Cade, even if that means the road is a bit bumpy from the jump.

3. If you were the coach what would be your optimal starting lineup, and what would you go-to closing lineup be if the team were up 5 points with 3 minutes to play?

LJ: I’d start Cade – Ivey – Bojan – Ausar – Duren, and shift into the two-big lineup off the bench; maybe you can get away with Stew – Bagley lineup against other bench units. And to close, if SOMEHOW the Pistons are up late in the fourth, I’d go Cade – Bojan – Ausar – healthy Livers – Duren. Only one “bad” defender in that lineup, good size, you can get stops, get rebounds, and score the basketball with that lineup.

BG: Were I the coach, I’d be in Troy Weaver’s ear as often as he’d let me about the very obvious shortcomings of the roster. There isn’t a single lineup without very significant weaknesses. Want shooting? Good luck defending the perimeter. Want switchability defending the pick and roll? Goodbye floor spacing on offense. Want lob threats in the front court for Cade and Ivey? It comes with a side of Swiss cheese interior defense. Monty will be earning that paycheck shuffling lineups based on matchups in winnable games because there is no single lineup complete enough to compete nightly.

JL: I think my closing lineup will probably be Cade, Ivey, Ausar, Stewart, and Duren. This lineup lacks in the shooting department and is inexperienced, but it at least has some offensive creators and is probably your best defensive lineup in terms of upside. It also features your 5 building blocks which you will need to see if they can play together. I think they could play with a lead. I may replace Duren with Bogdanovic if I need a little more offensive punch and move Stew to the 5.

WD: If it were up to me, I’d start Cade, Ivey, Ausar, Bojan and Duren. But I don’t reasonably expect that to happen. My top priority this season would be to maximize the minutes Cade, Ivey, Ausar and Duren play together though. If things break right for this team over the next few years, it will be on the backs of those four guys. They need to be out there together and they need to build chemistry quickly. As far as a closing lineup goes, give me Morris, Cade, Ausar, Bojan and Stewart. Morris, Cade and Bojan all can (theoretically) shoot the ball to space the floor. Ausar looks like the best wing defender the team has so he is a must-play. And Stewart may be able to shoot the ball, but even if he can’t, his ability to switch and act as a deterrent at the rim are the best of the bigs on this roster. Not to mention Monte Morris’s refusal to turn the ball over being exceptionally valuable in crunch time, along with his and Bojan’s veteran presence. Overall, I would argue this five-man unit is the best chance this team has at getting stops, scoring the ball, not turning it over and holding onto a lead.

BQ: I feel like I would still run a Cunningham-Ivey-Thompson-Bogdanovic-Duren starting lineup but honestly this team doesn’t really have anyone I feel confident in guarding NBA power forwards for consistent stretches, so I’m basing the decision on providing as much proven shooting around the young trio as possible, and I just can’t in good faith place that trust in Stewart.

In terms of closing, the cop out answer would be to ride the hot hand, whoever that is, but in an ideal scenario that lineup would remain the closing lineup, maybe swapping Stewart in for whoever is struggling on the night.

BF: If I’m in a close game I’m rolling with Cade and Ivey with Ausar, Bojan Bogdanovic and Jalen Duren. It feels like the right combination of size and speed while being able to keep up with the majority of small-ball teams in the NBA while being able to score (and get out and run) when needed.

CD: No surprises…. Cade, Ivey, Bojan, Stewart, Duren. Closing: Cade, Ausar, Livers, Stewart, Duren.

BS: Starters: Cade Cunningham, Jaden Ivey, Ausar Thompson, Bojan Bogdanovic, Jalen Duren. Closers: Cade Cunningham, Alec Burks, Ausar Thompson, Isaiah Stewart, Jalen Duren

DF: My starting line-up would be – Cunningham, Ivey, Bogdanovic, Stewart and Duren, and the closers would be completely game dependent, but for the sake of the exercise, we’ll go with Cunningham, Ivey, Bogdanovic, Thompson and Duren.